Muscle gain with only yolks and intermittent fasting

[MarciavD]

I feel like I really need some guidance in my attempt to build some muscle. I really got lost in the protein-struggle.
I am a female, 174cm and 59 kg, with 23.7% BF (with caliper, 4 points). I would like to lower my BF and increase
my musclemass. I know I am not fat or overweight, but I really don't like my body and I want to shape it.
A personal trainer gave me a training schedule and she also advised me to eat:

45 % carbs
35 % fat
20 % protein

I'm wondering if this isn't too much protein and at the same time I am really stressed because I don't know where I could get my
'required' 96 gr. of protein. I was 100% vegan before I started Wai, but now I do eat yolks. I don't eat animals and I
don't ever want to eat them. It also don't want to start boiling my food again (like chicken peas, beans, etc) to reach the
advised amount of protein. Plus... with the water retention that brings, my muscles are less visible I guess..
Wai is - in my opinion - the best 'diet' and I would like to stick to it. My skin has never looked any better, even though I
cheat now and then with some veggies.

So how much raw protein is required for me to build my muscles and is it 'doable' to build muscles just on yolks and nuts, or should I
give up on my 'dreambody' as long as I don't want to eat fish/meat?

Quite important: I also follow the 'leangains' intermittent fasting. I fast for 14-18 hours and eat 10-6 hours. Not very strict, but at least
14 hours because I believe the autophagy theory is correct. I try to eat 2 large(r) meals around 11h and 19h. Should I change that?

I really hope you guys can help me out (again).
Thanks on beforehand!

[RRM]

I'm wondering if this isn't too much protein

The downside of high protein intakes is that it may lead to more water retention.
Whether that actually materializes depends on individual susceptibilities, of course.

how much raw protein is required for me to build my muscles

If you do intermittent fasting, you need more protein to build muscles, as the fasting (also) stimulates conversion of protein into energy.
Without fasting, 3 yolks is the minimum (and 5 the optimum) for women, so that with intermittent fasting, 6 may be the minimum and 10 the optimum.
Consuming nuts also, you need less yolks. 100 gram nuts equals about 85 grams of yolks.

is it 'doable' to build muscles just on yolks and nuts

Absolutely.
All you need is good quality protein, which they both contain.
Plus you get additional protein from fruits/juices.

should I give up on my 'dreambody' as long as I don't want to eat fish/meat?

Absolutely not.
You just need to get in tune with your body's energy requirements.
Once you have mastered that and you are willing to do isolation exercises, you can manipulate your body any way you want it.

Quite important: I also follow the 'leangains' intermittent fasting. I fast for 14-18 hours and eat 10-6 hours. Not very strict, but at least
14 hours because I believe the autophagy theory is correct. I try to eat 2 large(r) meals around 11h and 19h. Should I change that?

No, no need to change that.

[MarciavD]

Thanks RRM!!
I eat 4-7 yolks a day, so eating 10 is no problem at all. (or eating 6 with 50 gr. nuts)

I wonder if I should restrict my calorie intake to lower my BF? I am afraid calorie restriction might inhibit muscle growth. Should I eat according to my energy requirements of should I eat more than just maintenance so my muscles have enough energy to grow?

Just to be sure about the quality of protein in (bought) unshelled nuts: I know this protein is ‘dirty’ but is it also from lower quality when it comes to building muscles? It seems like my skin can handle it. I can (only) find good shelled walnuts and hazelnuts.

And.. should I worry about missing some omega’s now I don’t eat fish?

[MarciavD]

Plus.. I thought intermittent fasting would protect muscle tissue so it won't be broken down and used for energy. That is the difference between calorie restricting only without fasting versus IF? Or do you think that isn't true?

And the whole 'being fat adapted' theory?
Our bodies should be more intelligent, why break down important tissue while there is plenty fat in stock?

[RRM]

I wonder if I should restrict my calorie intake to lower my BF?

Intermittent fasting also burns a lot of bodyfat.
How long have you been fasting intermittently? (days / weeks / months?)

I am afraid calorie restriction might inhibit muscle growth.

It does.

Should I eat according to my energy requirements of should I eat more than just maintenance so my muscles have enough energy to grow?

Your muscles need plenty of energy during the metabolic phase, to stimulate muscle building.
This metabolic phase needs to cover the entire night, so make sure to eat plenty right before going to bed.
Of course, during the fasting, some muscle tissue will be broken down, but this has to be (more than) compensated for during the night.

Just to be sure about the quality of protein in (bought) unshelled nuts

Shelled nuts are nuts that have been shelled; the shell removed.
Unshelled nuts are still in their shell.
I dont think protein quality will be much different.

And.. should I worry about missing some omega’s now I don’t eat fish?

http://www.waiworld.com/waidiet/nut-omega3.html
Egg yolks contain well balanced LNA, DPA and DHA (2% of total fat).
Fruits contain LNA. Of all fruits, particularly strawberries, muskmelon, banana, orange, mango and grapes are good sources of LNA.
Except for walnuts, most nuts contain relative low levels (% of total fat) of LNA.
So, if your intake of nuts is not too high, you will be fine.

[RRM]

Plus.. I thought intermittent fasting would protect muscle tissue so it won't be broken down and used for energy. That is the difference between calorie restricting only without fasting versus IF? Or do you think that isn't true?

It is true, but only relative.
This means that only in comparison to CR, IF breaks down less muscle tissue.
However, when compared to no fasting at all, CR breaks down more muscle tissue.
Whenever there is a relative lack of energy in our blood, we enter the catabolic phase, in which stored energy (protein in muscles, fat in adipose tissue, glucose in the glycogen depots and the blood) is released for conversion into available energy (ATP).

And the whole 'being fat adapted' theory?
Our bodies should be more intelligent, why break down important tissue while there is plenty fat in stock?

Our body is not an engine-like hybrid that shifts from one fuel source to another. Our body is more complex (and more intelligent) than that.
In our body, all sources of energy are utilized at the same time, and only the ratios will shift, depending on what is best for our body.
Of course, essential muscles (for breathing and your heart) will not be broken down, indeed.
But equally so, your body will try to minimize utilisation of our most effective source of spare energy (bodyfat), because you never know when you might need it. And glycogen is essential in fight and flight responses, so that it is also wise not to waste too much glycogen either. Of course you need strong legs tobe able to run fast, but big muscles are not always of much use when you need to flee from danger.
The greater your muscle mass, the higher the conversion percentage of muscle protein for energy will be. (big muscles are not so essential)
When very slender, your body will adapt to that by increased protection of muscles.
Similarly, the percentage conversion of bodyfat into available energy will go down as less bodyfat is available, and up when much bodyfat is available.
So, it is a matter of shifting ratios, and not a matter of on and off switches.

[MarciavD]

Ooops... I mixed up shelled and unshelled... Sorry!
I try to buy shelled, so I can unshell them by hand. I know what a shell is, feel so stupid right now.

I've been IF-ing for a about a month. My body still isn't used to it I guess. I experience a lot of hunger during the mornings, I thought my ghreline levels should be balanced right now.
Or... I just don't eat enough..?

Today I 've been walking for 3,5 hours and joined a spinning class but ate about 1900 kcals. That might be not enough...

Would it be a better idea to first get the 'ripped' look and when that's achieved start building muscles?

Sometimes I don't know why it is so hard for me to get the right balance in eating - food - exercise. Feels like I am in a vicious circle of too many - too little energy.

[MarciavD]

And thanks for your explanation! Now I fully understand!

[RRM]

I've been IF-ing for a about a month. My body still isn't used to it I guess.

Do not beat yourself up, please.
Fasting (IF or CR) is not easy. It goes against your instinct to not undereat voluntarily.
The problem is that food is always avialble and visible in our society.
If you would be busy avoiding a predator, chasing a prey or gathering wood, your mind would be off food, and you would easily succeed.
Instead you are constantly challenged. That is very hard, and will remain a challenge.

Or... I just don't eat enough..?

Are you losing weight?

Would it be a better idea to first get the 'ripped' look and when that's achieved start building muscles?

No. What you are trying to find, is a balanced intake of energy.
So, regardless of what you want your body to look like, the balance is your ultimate goal.
When you manage the balance, you are in charge of your body. You decide what it looks like.

Sometimes I don't know why it is so hard for me to get the right balance in eating - food - exercise. Feels like I am in a vicious circle of too many - too little energy.

That is normal.
That is trying to get things right.
Balance is a fine line. If you would eat just 1% too much daily, you already would gain 1 kg in pure bodyfat each year.
So, there is no guidance in numbers as to how much to eat. All you can do, is learn to listen to your body, and still be able to fast.
That is like juggling blindfolded standing on one foot. It is possible, but hard.
Listening to your body is key, and eventually because of your experiences with your own body you will prevail. If only you keep trying to listen.
And, of course, there is another way: when you lose weight you start to eat more.
When you gain fat, you start to eat less.
Its normal.

[MarciavD]

Ouch... I think I do beat myself up and that doesn't make things easier. Feeling guilty and weak even works the other way around.
Things seemed better when I did not focus on the protein and I also consumed a lot of fat. When I started IF I used coconut oil in my morning coffee, I heard that wasn't interrupting the fasting, but now I think it's better to not consume any energy whatsoever?
Have you read about the 'bulletproof coffee'?

Last week I definitely ate too much and I noticed I gained, which does make sense because of the overeating. But when I started Wai in May last year, my weight dropped a few kilos (to 56 kg with slightly visible abs). Then I started juicing and experimenting with munch food (no junk food) and gained almost 5 kilos. Last month - first month IF - I lost 1.5 kg but last week my body seems in control instead of me being in control over my body and my previous results are quickly disappearing.

I also noticed when I eat a (terrible) lot right before bedtime, I wake up in the middle of the night with hunger. This hunger feeling doesn't come up when my intake is lower and I stop eating a couple of hours before bedtime. So it seems I create more feelings of hunger by overeating? Or is this just a matter of my bloodsugar being out of wack? During the day I sometimes feel outrageous because of my feelings of hunger.
Extremely 'hangry' with a terrible mood!

Being in control sounds like too good to be true, but I don't give up on this blind folded juggling! You are the living proof it's possible!
I think I have to let go of all the calculating and start listening to my body. And maybe have a little trust in my body telling the truth..

Your answers are a great help for me, I really appreciate your time and effort!

[RRM]

now I think it's better to not consume any energy whatsoever?

Yes. Coffee is fine though (it even stimulates autophagy, they key process in fasting).

Have you read about the 'bulletproof coffee'?

Nope

my body seems in control instead of me being in control over my body and my previous results are quickly disappearing.

You need to look at it differently; it is all a learning process. Mistakes are part of this process. The more mistakes you make, the more you learn. Results are short term. Learning is forever.

it seems I create more feelings of hunger by overeating?

That is stomach-hunger. It is triggered by maximally stretching the stomach (filling it up to the max), which inevitably results in shrinking. The latter creates 'stomach hunger'.
To bypass this, your last meals should not be high in volume, but energy dense. (protein, fats and sugar, no fiber, not too much water)

Or is this just a matter of my bloodsugar being out of wack?

No, IF hasting been shown to decrease insulin resistence.

During the day I sometimes feel outrageous because of my feelings of hunger.
Extremely 'hangry' with a terrible mood!

That is due to low blood sugar, which inhibits serotonin levels.
There is no avoiding this. But with time, these feelings will recede, for some reason.
Just a matter of consistency, i think.

I think I have to let go of all the calculating and start listening to my body. And maybe have a little trust in my body telling the truth..

Correct
correct and
correct

I really appreciate your time and effort!

Thank you.
That is what this forum is for.

[MarciavD]

Bulletproof Fasting is some diet (don’t know a lot about it, because I am not interested), but one aspect is Bulletproof coffee. It’s (biological) coffee with 1 or 2 tablespoons real butter from grass fed cows and 1 or 2 tablespoons coconut oil (or MCT oil) which makes a tasty kind of ‘latte’ when you blend it. The ‘inventor’ of course sells his own coffee, MCT-oil, coconut oil etc. That seems more like marketing than science to me, but maybe his argumentation is correct? He states the oil / fats from the coffee don’t stop autophagy, our bodies won’t see the fats as breaking the fast. The additional benefits are : less to zero stomach hunger because of the ‘heavy coffee’, ingesting energy without breaking the fast and sharp and clear thinking (because of MCT and longer effect of caffeine due to the oils). I doubt if 3 tablespoons of oil/butter really don’t break the fast and really don’t stop the process of autophagy. I was interested in your opinion, because you know so much about it.
Do you think all kinds of ingested energy, no matter if it’s just fat, break the fast and stop the process of autophagy?

And yes, I will have to change my view and give myself some learning time! I always want to do things as quickly as possible. That’s certainly not working on this one.. And letting go of the calculating and counting.. I think I searched for being control in this counting, while in the meantime I got further away from what my body was trying to tell me. But now I am ready for a fresh and new try! Thanks for turning this into a positive / learning expercience instead of a failure.

And I consider getting back to juicing. Would (just) juice, oil and yolks be better than eating whole foods in order to get my balance right?

[RRM]

If fats would not break the fast, you could live on lots of fats only, even gain weight, and yet fast 24/7.
Of course, that is non-sense.
Technically it is true that fatty acids do not directly inhibit autophagy, unlike sugar and protein.
Fatty acids, however, may be converted into available energy for cells, which does inhibit autophagy.
So, when fatty acids are used for energy, this does technically 'break the fast'.
Furthermore, the triglycerides in fats also contain glycerol (3 fatty acids per 1 glycerol), which is a sugar-like substance (sugar-alcohol).
You could also drink your coffee with some sugar, with the same effect; it is very little energy that will hardly have any impact at all.
So, it is no problem to drink a coffee in the morning (with fat or sugar); the caffeine will still stimulate autophagy and the small amount of energy will hardly inhibit it. But the statement that consuming fats does not stop autophagy is nonsense.

[MarciavD]

I see. No bullet-things for me anymore, I'll stick to just black coffee! Merci beaucoup!

[Novidez]

I'm sorry to invade your Topic MarciavD, but I have this question regarding muscle gain and IF and, since I'm thinking about eating yolks as my protein intake, I didn't want to open a new one.

I still don't understand what's the best to ingest after working out. Since I was influenced by Ori Hofmekler, I still believe that the best food to ingest right after is something rich in protein. I've already searched here on the forum in order to answer my question, but I'm always unsure of what to do. The thing is: if you workout in the morning and your main meal is at night, how do you consume your food? Is eating only yolks after working out ok? The problem is that I usually feel hungry twice after working out. Should I consume some more yolks once again?
(I'm thinking about ingesting yolks because they seem pratical. Don't know if they are the optimal protein intake though)

And, well, just for curiosity, if I workout at night, how the post workout meal should be?
> Proteins + Carbs/Fats + Proteins
or
> Carbs/Fats + Proteins + Carbs/Fats? (RRM, you usually do this way, right?)
or also
> Carbs/Fats + Proteins
or
> Proteins + Carbs/Fats?