Fruits price? rice? B12? sugar? veggies?

[Rivera]

I dont buy the theory that our enzymes get depleted.
Probiotics certainly dont aid digestion; our body creates the balance of digestive enzymes that we need.

But in the wai diet, wai talks about Salmonella and how if you get some in your food, you body learns how to protect from it. So somewhere, raw food brings something that cooked foods don't. And it help your body to do whatever it needs to do.
So on the same idea (and not exactly the same subject), why the body could creates the balance needed in the case of enzymes, even if we have cooked food?

-Before we talked about blood test for check good/bad cholesterol; by the way, it is really reliable?

caffeine stimulates the adrenal glands to release an adrenaline-like substance, which in turn causes the liver to release sugar into the blood

true? And why do we get dependent on coffee? What's causing this?

-I come back on the low-heated-organic-honey-dunk-into-coffee subject: Regarding acne, is it bad?

-When making your own bread with a small machine, which ingredients would you recommend and the one you wuldn't? Sourdough is a must?

-Whole body vibration therapy? really good or bullshit?

[RRM]

the body could creates the balance needed in the case of enzymes, even if we have cooked food?

Yes, it can. If it could not, the body would not be able to properly digest the cooked foods that people eat.
Yes, the colon of cooked-food-eaters contains lots of undigested remainders,
but this is more likely due to the fact that most foods contain hard-to-digest-compounds
(transfats, oxysterols, HCA etc), than a lack of specific enzymes.

we talked about blood test for check good/bad cholesterol; by the way, it is really reliable?

Not in the sense as we know good and bad cholesterol;
we know about oxidized cholesterol, but the checks are for LDL/HDL.
But, it does give you an indication of total cholesterol (good + bad);
so that when bad cholesterol has gone down, you will see that in total cholesterol (went down as well).
So that you can do multiple checks and see if there is an improvement, or not.

true? And why do we get dependent on coffee? What's causing this?

True.
Caffeine stimulates the secretion of acetylcholine, just like amphetamines and cocaine do.
When we keep on stimulating the secretion of acetylcholine,
our body will respond by initiating less secretion,
so that we become increasingly dependent on the external stimulus
to get the same effect.

I come back on the low-heated-organic-honey-dunk-into-coffee subject: Regarding acne, is it bad?

Honey, no. Coffee, yes.

-When making your own bread with a small machine, which ingredients would you recommend and the one you wuldn't? Sourdough is a must?

I advice against eating any bread at all.

-Whole body vibration therapy? really good or bullshit?

I have no idea.

[Rivera]

I advice against eating any bread at all.

I know but as a munch food it's what I can find the best considering what I am craving for.
Next choice may be more processed, don't know if it will have trans fats etc...

Because what is really bad in bread? Insulin response if eaten too much? With sourdough, insulin response may be smaller than with white bread.
Usually, when I eat some, carbohydrates intake is around 130gr (it's a white flour, processed one). I use some butter, not too much processed.
Anyway, cravings are usually for cooked and processed foods, so we don't have so much choice.

By the way, why are you so reluctant about sourdough? Could you list all the bad points it may have?

[RRM]

Because what is really bad in bread?

Wheat exorphins (opioid peptides) increase cravings,
making it much harder to do this diet (even a little).
And the hard to digest fiber,
and the starch,
and its baked...

Insulin response if eaten too much? With sourdough, insulin response may be smaller than with white bread.

Not so much difference.

why are you so reluctant about sourdough? Could you list all the bad points it may have?

How can i possibly be enthusiastic about it?
Its a baked end-product of bacteria and yeast present in a mixture of flour and water.
Its like asking someone from the Alcohol Anonymous organization why he is so reluctant about beer...

[Rivera]

Insulin response if eaten too much? With sourdough, insulin response may be smaller than with white bread.

Not so much difference.

Are there any studies on this?

How can i possibly be enthusiastic about it?
Its a baked end-product of bacteria and yeast present in a mixture of flour and water.
Its like asking someone from the Alcohol Anonymous organization why he is so reluctant about beer...

I know and I don't mean to be enthusiastic about it but wai diet proposes munch food and some are: cookies, pastas, fried stuff etc... There is even white bread proposed (even if sourdough would be better).
It is really better? It's just that when I name bread it seems always so bad to you.
Home made, sourdough organic bread may be not good, but as a munch food it's not the worse.

[RRM]

Are there any studies on this?

Yes.
By adding a sourdough prefermentation step, suppressing steam cooking and decreasing the sucrose content as well, the insulin response was 12% lower.

There were no significant differences in insulin concentrations among the test breads. (white, whole wheat, sourdough, whole wheat barley)

Plasma insulin response to this type of bread (sourdough) showed lower values

Home made, sourdough organic bread may be not good, but as a munch food it's not the worse.

"Among the worst" if you look at what qualifies 'good munch food' for us:
- High fat contents (=satisfying)
- low protein contents

[Rivera]

Bread contains fungi and mycotoxins too?
I read that you can find in apples, tomatoes and nuts too, right?

-What do you think of natto (in general)?

----
I'm re-reading the wai diet book and I'll have again many questions on it ( ) lol. Let's start slowly:
It is said:

"Thanks to the use of fire we could eat grains because heat kills those enzymes that inhibit their digestion"

So there are enzymes that block digestion and enzymes that help to digest?

"some dietary fats change into trans-fatty acids, which are incorporated in your adipose tissue and can cause cancer and vascular diseases "

Some? So which ones are not changed?

"Acne is not at all restricted to puberty."

So the principal reason why teenagers have more acne is because of the hormone stuff because they are growing and changing, and they produce more sebum too?

"Remain physically inactive for at least one and a half hours after having consumed a proteinaceous meal"

What is a proteinaceous meal? From how much proteins does it becomes a proteinaceous meal?

"Every pharmacist knows that both androgens and estrogens make you retain more water."

Why retaining more water is bad? Water is essential for the body?

[RRM]

I read that you can find in apples, tomatoes and nuts too, right?

There is a whole variety of them, for different purposes.
Some you find in fruit seeds to prevent consumption of those seeds,
or to deter insects.
Or to prevent consumption of unripe fruits (the green in tomatoes)
or the consumption of nuts by the 'wrong species' (that do not promote spreading)

What do you think of natto (in general)?

You know what we wrote about soy products, no?

So there are enzymes that block digestion and enzymes that help to digest?

Yes, the former ones are often called antinutrients.

which ones are not changed?

saturated fats are better protected against molecular changes.

So the principal reason why teenagers have more acne is because of the hormone stuff because they are growing and changing, and they produce more sebum too?

yes, the latter due to the former.

What is a proteinaceous meal? From how much proteins does it becomes a proteinaceous meal?

high in protein.
There is no strict line.

Why retaining more water is bad?

For acne and cellulite, and ageing of the skin.
It is all explained in the book.

[Rivera]

Why retaining more water is bad?

For acne and cellulite, and ageing of the skin.
It is all explained in the book.

Yes, I know for these it's bad but I'm surprised because water is essential for the body so retaining water should not be considered as bad for health. Of course, I know it's caused by cooked foods etc...

"prepared foods in general and proteinaceous prepared foods in particular because of the beta-carbolines"

So cooking does create beta-carbolines?

"How can I know whether my blood sugar is low?
You should do the fruit-test: If your blood-sugar level is low, you will definitely welcome a piece of ripe fruit, and you will feel better instantly. If you don't feel like eating fruit, your blood-sugar level is not low. It is that simple."

Is there a source for this or it is just a theory?

"Excess cutaneous moisture in the skin must be lessened to eliminate or reduce cellulite or acne. To accomplish this the intake of salt and 'dirty' protein must be drastically decreased."

but I guess there is a lot of salt inside fish? Wouldn't it be bad?

"You don't need to be upset by the browning; it is the color of banana-starch that is transformed into single sugars due to oxidation."
(It's from the shakes part)

Isn't oxidation bad?

"Don't consume fruits within two to three hours after having eaten fresh raw animal food for that will probably cause cramps."

2 or 3 hours?? But aren't we supposed to eat the most possible fruits per day? Waiting that long will limit the intakes of fruits.
Or we must eat a lot at one sitting.

"You therefore better make a big bowl of salad every day, covered with lots of olive oil, and take a few bites of it after every time you have consumed some fruit/juices. This fat will stabilize your blood sugar level and will thus also prevent carvings."

I'm little confused with this. On the forum, you said that more than one fruit per meal is not surely safe (depending on activity etc...) and here we talk about fruits+salad with avocado, tomatoes, cucumber etc...?? Wouldn't be better to just add olive oil to the fruit you eat or to drink it in a teaspoon, so you don't have to make a salad full of fruits?

"To be able to distinguish the difference between wild fresh salmon that has not been in the freezer and not-so-fresh salmon, salmon from hatcheries, or salmon that has been in the freezer, you should first eat salmon in a high-quality Japanese restaurant."

So the only difference between hatcheries and sushi restaurants is that hatcheries will freeze the fish? Just this or is there another thing?
How sushi restaurants do keep the fish fresh all day long? Just with ice?
I know some may kill the fish when you order it.

"Organic Eggs
Unfortunately, on regular farms hens hardly ever get their natural food; raw grains, grass and insects"

Which kind of grains?

[RRM]

I'm surprised because water is essential for the body so retaining water should not be considered as bad for health

Vitamins are also essential for good health,
and yet too much of it has adverse effects too.
Its all about balance...
Retaining too much water will put a burden on the outer skin cells.

So cooking does create beta-carbolines?

Rivera, you have been around here for a while,
havent you read about the influence of cooking?

Is there a source for this or it is just a theory?

Its ages old.
When you are hungry, 'virtually everything' seems to taste fine.
Never heard of that?
There is a whole system of interactive neurotransmitters that will
stimulate appetite when your blood sugar level decreases.

I guess there is a lot of salt inside fish?

Actually, there isnt.
Even not in salt water fish.
Just compare the amount of sodium in fish like tuna and mackerel,
to that of any kind of cookie or bread,
or to that in any kind of pre-made dish specifically.

Isn't oxidation bad?

There are lots of different kinds of oxidation.
This browning of bananas due to air exposure is not bad oxidation.

"Don't consume fruits within two to three hours after having eaten fresh raw animal food for that will probably cause cramps."

2 or 3 hours?? But aren't we supposed to eat the most possible fruits per day? Waiting that long will limit the intakes of fruits.
Or we must eat a lot at one sitting.

Not whole fruits.
Sipping juice is perfectly fine. (its about the fiber)
Once you are used to this diet, you can experiment with this,
as most people are not that sensitive.

On the forum, you said that more than one fruit per meal is not surely safe (depending on activity etc...) and here we talk about fruits+salad with avocado, tomatoes, cucumber etc...??

There is also a chapter dedicated to good combinations.
A salad containing avocado, cucumber and tomatoes is an example of
a good combination.

So the only difference between hatcheries and sushi restaurants is that hatcheries will freeze the fish?

No, we didnt say that.
We advised to go to a high quality restaurant to find out what realy good fresh fish tastes like, so that you know...
And then you can later distinguish between that taste, and different tasting fish.
The fish is easily kept fresh for a day (on ice, indeed)

"Organic Eggs
Unfortunately, on regular farms hens hardly ever get their natural food; raw grains, grass and insects"

Which kind of grains?

Small wild grains, as the seeds of grasses.
Also snails, worms, bugs etc.

[Rivera]

Rivera, you have been around here for a while,
havent you read about the influence of cooking?

Yes, I just found it. I thought I just saw: "cooking creates opioid peptides" and each time Wai talked about about beta-carbolines, she said processed foods contain beta carbolines and not clearly saying that cooking created them. But I found one line where she says it.
Sorry too much things to memorize. I need to read it again many times.

We advised to go to a high quality restaurant to find out what realy good fresh fish tastes like, so that you know...
And then you can later distinguish between that taste, and different tasting fish.
The fish is easily kept fresh for a day (on ice, indeed)

The fish sold in supermarket, but the one exposed inside ice, was it frozen before it get there?

Too much vitamin C decreases vitamin B12 level [63] and can increase activation of mutagenic HCA from food. [64] Vitamin C can enhance growth of tumors, [65] and increases pro-oxidative free iron. [66]

There is this too to mention: Click, click, click and click (the last one )

Because what is really bad in bread?

Wheat exorphins (opioid peptides) increase cravings,
making it much harder to do this diet (even a little).
And the hard to digest fiber,
and the starch,
and its baked...

This brings the lol:

fruitarians often display food-obsessive behavior. Take two pieces of bread, give one to an anorexic, and another to a fruitarian. The anorexic thinks, "I can't eat this bread, it will create fat"; the fruitarian may think in a similar matter: "I can't eat this bread" - with the reason(s) cited being one or more of the following delusions: a) the bread is cooked, hence toxic, b) the bread will produce mucus, which is the root of all disease, and will make me "impure", c) the bread contains protein (and/or starch), and all protein/starch is toxic and a horror. Here the point is the obsessive attitude toward food common to the anorexic and the fruitarian.

And more seriously, this too:

* modern, cultivated fruit is very high in sugar, higher in sugar than most wild, uncultivated fruits. A diet of only fruit can provide excess sugar intake, resulting in diabetes-like symptoms: sugar cravings, excessive urination, thirst, sugar highs/blues, fatigue. Excessive sugar, in the long run, may have a negative effect on the pancreas. (Fruitarians would be well advised to daily eat some dark, bitter, leafy greens - according to several herbal health systems, bitter greens help regulate sugar metabolism and reduce sugar cravings.)

http://www.living-foods.com/articles/fr ... rocon.html

-Not related but how long it would take to clear out a B12 deficiency with 1,000 micrograms liposomal supplement? In just one serving, it would be fine right? Or would it take longer?

[RRM]

The fish sold in supermarket, but the one exposed inside ice, was it frozen before it get there?

I cannot tell, naturally.
In the supermarket there is fish sold as fresh, that always has previously been frozen, such as tilapia.

There is this too to mention: ...High-dose vitamin C supplementation accelerates the Achilles tendon healing in healthy rats...

what are you trying to say?
That vitamin C also has beneficial effects?
Do you think that we dont know?
Of course the effects of vitamins are mostly beneficial.
Its just that we try to point out that too much of it can also be harmful,
and that we therefore should not force the body to take up extra,
by taking vitamin pills.
Just offer it enough, and the body can perfectly take up as much as it needs.

* modern, cultivated fruit is very high in sugar, higher in sugar than most wild, uncultivated fruits. A diet of only fruit can provide excess sugar intake

If you want to ask or say something, please be more specific than just posting a quote.
I will just give a comment.
What is excess?
Too much sugar in one sitting?
Or too much sugar in total per day?
The former one does not happen with this diet, as we eat lots of small meals,
and carefully listen to our blood glucose level.
The latter one would make you gain weight,
which also doesnt happen on this diet due to a number of reasons:
- a lack of appetite enhancers
- lots of small meals
- monitoring blood glucose levels

bitter greens help regulate sugar metabolism and reduce sugar cravings.)

Bitter greens inhibit appetite, indeed, because the body does not like antinutrients.
Is that a good thing, you think?

how long it would take to clear out a B12 deficiency with 1,000 micrograms liposomal supplement? In just one serving, it would be fine right? Or would it take longer?

I would strongly advice against it.
First the body is deprived of B12,
and then it needs to cope with a highly concentrated dosage?
Its as if you force an almost starved person to eat 5 hamburgers.
You need to start very carefully.
That person just needs to eat some animal food daily.

[Rivera]

what are you trying to say?
That vitamin C also has beneficial effects?

That here, supplements are always taken from the bad side. I know you know it can be good in some case, but usually your answer is more prone to say: if you eat enough, you don't need them. And again true, but few people eat perfectly. Plus, older people seem to have problem to digest some vitamins/minerals.

Its just that we try to point out that too much of it can also be harmful,
and that we therefore should not force the body to take up extra,
by taking vitamin pills.

I know but when we read the book, we feel more like "it's very bad! " that "in many case, it's useful when used properly". Just this. That's why I post something opposite to this. Just for the balance.

If you want to ask or say something, please be more specific than just posting a quote.

No question there, I just show and if you feel the need to comment you can. Sorry, next time, I'll say it.

I will just give a comment.
What is excess?

I could ask you too what is too much vitamins/minerals (like in the book)?

Bitter greens inhibit appetite, indeed, because the body does not like antinutrients.
Is that a good thing, you think?

I don't think but let's take it with an open mind: maybe it could? So making us eat less? Helping in some kind of balance.
And I think in the Wai book I read some things inside the food we eat (include in the wai diet) inhibit the appetite or may result in inhibiting it (or something like this), no? I forgot.

I would strongly advice against it.
First the body is deprived of B12,
and then it needs to cope with a highly concentrated dosage?
Its as if you force an almost starved person to eat 5 hamburgers.
You need to start very carefully.
That person just needs to eat some animal food daily.

Yes, I know it's too much but I just want to know about the time it would clear out the deficiency? More about this fact.
I find some study once saying after 3 or 4 months, symptoms from b12 deficiency were better, but I thought: why so long to clear out a deficiency, especially with so high dosages? They could have stop the study earlier for this.

[RRM]

what are you trying to say?
That vitamin C also has beneficial effects?

That here, supplements are always taken from the bad side. I know you know it can be good in some case, but usually your answer is more prone to say: if you eat enough, you don't need them. And again true, but few people eat perfectly. Plus, older people seem to have problem to digest some vitamins/minerals.

vitamin C is a vitamin, so we dont think we have to tell anyone about its good effects.
On this diet, people surely get more than all the vitamin C they could possibly need.
And on this diet, digestion is much improved too.

I could ask you too what is too much vitamins/minerals (like in the book)?

This diet supplies you with all the vitamins and minerals that you need.
Too much is when you force the body to increase levels beyond that,
by taking supplements.

I don't think but let's take it with an open mind: maybe it could? So making us eat less? Helping in some kind of balance.

If we need help from bitter (mildly toxic) substances to decrease our appetite,
this is not restoring a balance (there is no lack of toxins in the body), but using plant ingredients as a 'medication',
in as much as taking diet pills.

They could have stop the study earlier for this.

Sure, but studies usually comprise a certain pre-set period of time,
so that they can monitor all possible effects.
Such a study is hardly ever about being sensible with regards to the study subjects.
Its for 'gaining knowledge', and only if the human subjects drop dead (in higher rates than normally), then they will adjust or cancel something.

[Rivera]

"Among the worst" if you look at what qualifies 'good munch food' for us:
- High fat contents (=satisfying)
- low protein contents

For health, what would it be? High fat contents mean "trans fat" in munch food.

-Still regarding only health: organic raw butter as a munch? "Very good"?

-Again about health: If I can find only pasteurized eggs (and not organics), should I stop or continue to take them?

In the supermarket there is fish sold as fresh, that always has previously been frozen, such as tilapia.

Except freezing, are there some other treatments I may not know about, that some supermarkets do on fish?

-Between instant coffee and regular coffee, if you must pick one, which?


-When I eat a lot of bananas, my stomach feels not good, is it because of the fibers inside?
RRM, are the fruits you buy organics?

-The minerals iodine/iodide, can you stock it in the body? If one day, you get more than you need, does the body stock it and use it afterwards like with fat-soluble vitamins?