Possible to look like.. (ripped, muscular)

How to prevent unwanted weightloss, and/or even gain muscles
Havas
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Possible to look like.. (ripped, muscular)

Post by Havas »

http://www.webwombat.com.au/entertainme ... vans-1.jpg


Sorry if I'm getting a bit ahead of myself. :P


Is it possible for an average guy to look like that? And what about on the Wai diet?

If I did weights, and stuck on the Wai diet could I realistically hope to have a physic like him in 4 months?


Haha, just throwing some questions up. I don't mind if no one answers, but I'd be interested to here anyone's thoughts on the subject.
johndela1
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Post by johndela1 »

Many people don't realize you can't look like some one in a picture by simply adding muscle and losing fat.

Your bone structure has a lot to do with how you look. Also, many of the pics you see of famous actors/models are not the way they normally look. They prepare for photos with special diets they follow for a period of time before they shoot.
Brazilnuts
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Re: Possible to look like..

Post by Brazilnuts »

I might be wrong, but from descriptions I have read, RRM might have a similar physique. In which case, then yes it is possible to look like that.
Havas wrote:http://www.webwombat.com.au/entertainme ... vans-1.jpg


Sorry if I'm getting a bit ahead of myself. :P


Is it possible for an average guy to look like that? And what about on the Wai diet?

If I did weights, and stuck on the Wai diet could I realistically hope to have a physic like him in 4 months?


Haha, just throwing some questions up. I don't mind if no one answers, but I'd be interested to here anyone's thoughts on the subject.
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RRM
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Re: Possible to look like..

Post by RRM »

Brazilnuts wrote:I might be wrong, but from descriptions I have read, RRM might have a similar physique.
Yes, but thats not because of this diet.
Indeed, you cannot change your bone structure.
What you CAN do: making your abs visible, loose redundant fat, and gain some some extra muscles.
Is it possible for an average guy to look like that? And what about on the Wai diet?
Absolutely; the body in the pic is just an average body when everybody eliminates water retention, eliminates overweight and does a little exercise to create a bit extra muscle volume.
Thats easy on this diet.
If I did weights, and stuck on the Wai diet could I realistically hope to have a physic like him in 4 months?
that depends on what your body looks like right now. (how much overweight, how little muscle volume)
Havas
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Re: Possible to look like..

Post by Havas »

RRM wrote:that depends on what your body looks like right now. (how much overweight, how little muscle volume)
My build is average, perhaps slightly above average.

As far as muscle, I'm definitely got more muscle strength than most people, but as far as muscle volume - it doesn't seem like that much is there . I've got no muscle-breasts like that guy, and I can only tell I have abs if I dig my fingers in.

I'm not really that overweight. On those body fat things, and BMI scale, I get put in the "healthy" category but very close to overweight. I could lose 10kg of fat but I think I carry it fairly well. It just gives me a "soft" look more than anything. But I've pretty much got zero muscle definition.

I'll keep up my jogging, and work on removing that layer of fat covering everything and see what I can do from there.
Brazilnuts
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Re: Possible to look like..

Post by Brazilnuts »

Havas wrote:I could lose 10kg of fat but I think I carry it fairly well... I've pretty much got zero muscle definition....I'll keep up my jogging, and work on removing that layer of fat covering everything and see what I can do from there.
Your plan sounds vague.

As for the jogging, I think you should scrap that and do some High Intensity Interval Training (HIIT) to lose the excess fat. You might hear otherwise on this forum, but trust me, I am absolutely certain that one of the reasons RRM has a similar build to that guy is because he UNINTENTIONALLY does HIIT sessions everyday that he goes to work. He rushes about, slows down, rushes about, slows down etc. thus eliminating the body fat according to the principles of HIIT. Any other workout he does, helps him to build muscle. And because he drinks a lot of OJ & OO throughout the day, he helps prevent his muscles from catabolising.

Don't believe me? Okay, here it is from our Lady herself:
Wai wrote:...if you dont want to lose muscle, dont jog very long, and make it a bit more intense, by running up (outdoor) stairs / hills.
also, to prevent muscle loss, it is best to not jog in one pace, but do sprints in between (or climbing)
Furthermore, if you work out to build muscle, you REALLY have to eat little and often, if not the little muscle mass you gain would be eaten up and used as energy whenever your blood sugar goes down.

Two very important quotes:
RRM wrote:its even more important to keep your blood sugar level up all the time, as it is very much possible that you ingest all required energy / day, and still convert muscle protein into energy. Thats because that is what happens the moment your blood sugar level goes down in between meals (energy-lows alternated with energy-highs; the latter coming with fat and glycogen storage, the former coming with breakdown of muscle, bodyfat and stored glycogen).


and
Oscar wrote:Muscles need rest to recover and grow, so train different muscles on different days.
You can find the original quotes here.

So now that we have worked out how you can lose the fat and keep hold of the muscle you gain, lets turn our attention to HOW you gain the muscle in the first place.

There is a program I tried several years ago and I can swear by it. However I don't follow it any more as I am not really interested in looking ripped. I just want to get fit and reduce my body fat percentage (it is currently higher than average :shock: ). This is the program. See

http://bodyforlife.com/success/goals/sizestrength.asp

and

http://bodyforlife.com/success/goals/leanstrong.asp


What I like about the program is that it incorporates three similar elements to what I described above.
  • 1. Eat several times a day. They say 6 times a day, but we all know that on the Wai diet it can be even more than 6 times a day.
    2. They encourage you to eat carbs with protein at every meal. This is actually similar to our method of eating carbs with fat at every meal, so just ignore the protein part and replace it with fat, taking care to consume your protein Wai-style (i.e. raw and when you are able to rest for a couple of hours afterwards)
    3. They encourage you to do a form of HIIT, in the sense that during the cardio days (they have weight-lifting days in between cardio days, so the muscles rest and grow, and the weight-lifting is split into upper and lower body per session). Their form of HIIT is actually pretty impressive, in that your cardio is performed as a kind of roller-coaster and then you peak, and then slow down and start building up again. I think you can either stick to their method of cardio or do the HIIT training described here:

    http://musclemedia.com/training/hiit.asp

    and

    viewtopic.php?t=1802
One thing I must mention about the Body For Life Program though, beware falling into the trap of thinking you need all the 'supplements' they try to push you into buying. On the Wai diet, you don't need any supplements. Which is good cus you save money that way.


Good luck and please keep us informed of your progress.

:)
Brazilnuts
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Re: Possible to look like..

Post by Brazilnuts »

Image
Havas wrote:http://www.webwombat.com.au/entertainme ... vans-1.jpg
If I did weights, and stuck on the Wai diet could I realistically hope to have a physic like him in 4 months?
Ooops, I forgot to add that lots of people on the Body-for-LIFE program I described above not only get a physique like the one you aspire to within 3 months, but they also surpass it within that same time. So you've got plenty of time. 8)
(this man) lost 12 lbs. of fat while packing on lean Muscle Mass and slashing his bodyfat into the single digits in 12 weeks
Image

Please read the rest of this story here, where you will see before and after pictures: http://bodyforlife.com/challenge/champi ... ge%2031-45

You can also read reviews of others who have tried the program here: http://www.amazon.com/review/product/00 ... ddFiveStar


As I said before, I have used this program in the past and it does work. I NEVER went to the gym whilst I was on the program as I had my own workout bench, weights, free weights, rowing machine, cycling machine and stepper. That was really all I needed. I NEVER used any of the supplements they suggested or promoted. I got lean and toned, and all it cost me was few bucks to buy the book and a few more to buy the exercise equipment from a discount store. I still have the book. If you want it I can send it to you for free. After that, you won't really need anything else, except gym membership. And the Wai-diet, of course!

:P

If you want my copy of the book, let me know.
Havas
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Post by Havas »

Hi Brazilnuts,

Thanks for the encouragement, I've just downloaded it as an ebook now.



For the first time in my life, I feel like I'm in control of my own well being. Instead of being hit by what ever is thrown at me. It feels very empowering.

Thanks.
Brazilnuts
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Post by Brazilnuts »

Havas wrote:Hi Brazilnuts,

Thanks for the encouragement, I've just downloaded it as an ebook now.



For the first time in my life, I feel like I'm in control of my own well being. Instead of being hit by what ever is thrown at me. It feels very empowering.

Thanks.
Fantastic!

Hopefully you can do us keen muscle heads a favour and take before pictures, then post progress pictures, hiding your face if necessary.

If you don't want to share your pictures, thats fine, but for your own motivation, I highly recommend you take before pictures, then weekly progress pictures and keep them somewhere in your computer or your wall so that motivates you to keep going.

Good luck.

:P
Havas
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Post by Havas »

I did my first high intensity training today. Went well, but I need a couple days to sort the Wai energy situation out, as I know I'm not getting enough. But I'll keep at it.

I took some before pictures, I'll share if there are some after pictures I'm proud of. (Acne and body)
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RRM
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Re: Possible to look like..

Post by RRM »

Brazilnuts wrote:You might hear otherwise on this forum, but trust me, I am absolutely certain that one of the reasons RRM has a similar build to that guy is because he UNINTENTIONALLY does HIIT sessions everyday that he goes to work. He rushes about, slows down, rushes about, slows down etc.
Its never high intensity physical activity, unless speedwalking falls into that category.
Its simply not true that you need to burn a lot of calories to burn fat. When you use your muscles to burn calories, thats sugars, not fat.
But yes, you need to train your muscles to build them.
There are plenty, plenty of skinny people that do NOT do any high intensity exercises. Not because they 'just have that physique', but because low intensity exercises (or no exercise at all) are simply more effective when it comes to burning fat, effortlessly.
However, when it comes to building muscles, yes, of course you have to train them.
All im saying is that its absolutely not true that you need high intensity exercises to loose fat / be slim.
Furthermore, if you work out to build muscle, you REALLY have to eat little and often, if not the little muscle mass you gain would be eaten up and used as energy whenever your blood sugar goes down.
True.
And with this diet thats even more true, as you need to eat many meals a day just to maintain your muscle volume. If you want to gain muscle, you better even eat more frequently.
1. Eat several times a day. They say 6 times a day, but we all know that on the Wai diet it can be even more than 6 times a day.
It HAS to be waaay more than 6 times a day. Otherwise you will not be able to build muscle, simply because there is no carbing up on pasta, rice, bread or something similar. What you ingest is easy to digest and assimilate carbs, so that you cannot eat that much because that would spike your blood sugar too much. Thats why you have to eat way more often.

Regarding protein; you more easily gain weight when you consume that maximum protein that your skin can handle. Your skin can cope with more protein if its divided over more than one meal.
So, to prevent acne during the program, you first need to establish your max, through experimentation.
3. They encourage you to do a form of HIIT, in the sense that during the cardio days (they have weight-lifting days in between cardio days, so the muscles rest and grow, and the weight-lifting is split into upper and lower body per session).
You dont need cardio to build muscles. You need to do weights and rest.
Leave out the cardio; they think you need it to loose fat, but thats not true.
fictor
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Post by fictor »

How many times would you say one would have to eat while trying to build more muscles on Wai, RRM?

I try to eat very small meals (typically a dried fig and two-three pieces of dried mango with coconut oil or an apple with a spoon of OO or a mashed banana with an 1-3 eggyolks), something like 10 times or more during the day. I also divide my protein intake. I usually have 3 eggs in the morning, 3 eggs midday and 50-ish grams of sashimi or beef in the evening. Acne seems to be gradually diminishing, so I guess I am not eating to much protein.
Brazilnuts
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Re: Possible to look like..

Post by Brazilnuts »

RRM wrote:Its never high intensity physical activity, unless speedwalking falls into that category.
Yes, speedwalking does fall into that category. For someone who is not very fit, that could set their heart beating really fast. Anyway, what is really relevant is that the movements are never at the same pace for too long. Whilst for you speedwalking might not be 'high intensity', but interspersed with stopping and/or slowing down, that incorporates the theory of interval training.
RRM wrote:Its simply not true that you need to burn a lot of calories to burn fat. When you use your muscles to burn calories, thats sugars, not fat.
Please read the articles about the type of HIIT I mentioned. Plus this one.
PACE Expert wrote:It is true that with moderate exercise, the percentage of energy derived from fat is higher but surprisingly, the body burns even more fat (60 percent) while it is resting. Who would prescribe resting to burn fat? Yet, this table shows us that the most important changes from exercise occur after, not during, the exercise period.
It's NOT about burning calories during the HIIT workout, but about increasing metabolic rate for up to 24 hours afterwards. Think of it this way, each HIIT session CANNOT be more than 20 minutes long, at least half of which (10 mins) is in the resting stage. If it is about burning calories during the workout, what can someone expect to burn in less than 10 minutes of cardio?

I think you need to read all the HIIT links I provided so you understand what it is advocating. We are actually both agreeing that "Its simply not true that you need to burn a lot of calories to burn fat".
HIIT Expert wrote: Listen, too much aerobics burns muscle! Take a look at the vast majority of women who take aerobics classes after work: do they ever transform their physiques? Rarely.
RRM wrote:low intensity exercises (or no exercise at all) are simply more effective when it comes to burning fat, effortlessly.
Who has 3 hours to spend walking everyday just so they can lose a bit of fat? Certainly not me. And I can confirm that I am on the Wai diet almost 100% at the moment and also doing HIIT and my body fat percentage has reduced. Believe it or not, but I only run for about 4 minutes 3 or 4 times a week during HIIT. That is how little actual cardio I am doing. The rest of the workout is in the 'rest' stage.

You seem to think that I spend 20 minutes doing full on cardio. I don't.

RRM wrote:All im saying is that its absolutely not true that you need high intensity exercises to loose fat / be slim.
Please give me scientific facts to back up this 'absolute' statement. Furthermore, I never said that anybody has a 'need' for HIIT to lose fat, but merely mentioned it as one of the many ways people all over the world get rid of fat. There are many ways to skin a cow.
Brazilnuts wrote:3. They encourage you to do a form of HIIT, in the sense that during the cardio days (they have weight-lifting days in between cardio days, so the muscles rest and grow, and the weight-lifting is split into upper and lower body per session).
RRM wrote:You dont need cardio to build muscles. You need to do weights and rest
What you quoted from me never insinuated as much. I wrote "they have weight-lifting days in between cardio days, so the muscles rest and grow". You are actually agreeing with them. :)
RRM wrote:Leave out the cardio; they think you need it to loose fat, but thats not true.


If Havas wants to look ripped in 4 months time and not a year, then he will certainly benefit from HIIT. And again, it is not like your run of the mill cardio.
Brazilnuts wrote:As for the jogging, I think you should scrap that and do some High Intensity Interval Training (HIIT) to lose the excess fat.
RRM, I am actually encouraging Havas to quit spending so much time 'jogging' for fat loss and to simply replace it with shorter cardio-boosting workouts.

RRM, seriously, what harm can running for ONLY 4 minutes three times a week do?
Brazilnuts
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Post by Brazilnuts »

RRM, I need to clarify something for you.

This is my usual HIIT schedule, which is done 3 or 4 times a week, and no more.
Minute by
Minute = Type = Intensity Level
1 = Warm up = 3 out of 10
2 = Warm up = 4 out of 10
3 = Warm up = 4 out of 10
4 = Warm up = 5 out of 10
5 = Warm up = 5 out of 10
6 = Hard = 8 out of 10
7 = Easy = 3 out of 10
8 = Easy = 3 out of 10
9 = Hard = 8 out of 10
10 = Easy = 3 out of 10
11 = Easy = 3 out of 10
12 = Hard = 8 out of 10
13 = Easy = 3 out of 10
14 = Easy = 3 out of 10
15 = Hard = 8 out of 10
16 = Cool Down = 3 out of 10
17 = Cool Down = 3 out of 10
18 = Cool Down = 3 out of 10
19 = Cool Down = 3 out of 10
20 = Cool Down = 3 out of 10

20 minutes total
1 minute is spent WALKING (Wai-style).
2 to 3, that is the next 2 minutes, is spent WALKING, but only a little bit faster.
4 to 5, that is the next 2 minutes, is spent speed-WALKING.
6, that is one minute, on the 6th minute, is spent running or jogging.
7 to 8, that is two minutes, is spent WALKING (Wai-style).
9, that is one minute, is spent running or jogging.
10 to 11, that is two minutes, is spent WALKING (Wai-style).
12, that is one minute, is spent running or jogging.
13 to 14, that is two minutes, is spent WALKING (Wai-style).
15, that is one minute, is spent running or jogging.
16 to 20, that is five minutes, is spent WALKING (Wai-style).

Total Time Speed-Walking = 15 Minutes.
Total Time Running or Jogging = 4 MINUTES.


Therefore, the total time actually spent on the 'high intensity' part of the interval training is just 4 minutes.

Is that excessive? Is that un-Wai? Is that considered totally unnecessary?
:?:
chris m failla
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Post by chris m failla »

What RRM I think is saying is you dont even need 4 minutes of intense cardio to lose fat. Most very lean, skinny people dont exercise at all. Just live. Meaning, go to work, eat raw, work, eat raw, take a break, eat raw, walk to the train, walk back from the train,lgo home, do some chores, eat raw, take your dog for a walk, eat raw, walk around the house doing whatever, eat raw . Even high intensity for short periods cause unneeded stress on the heart and system, for what, to burn some fat that shouldnt be there in the first place. My advice, eat raw, the wai way, and do normal activities. If you want to look more buff and lean, lift weights, at low intensity, heck, dont even sweat, just work the muscle.
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